Division 105 Locomotive Engineers
Past Notable News
Canadian National admits record keeping was 'not up to standards'
The union representing one of two Prince George men killed in a train wreck near McBride last May vows to make sure someone takes responsibility for the accident, and promises to help ensure a similar incident doesn't happen again.
"Two people are dead and if it's because somebody didn't do what they were supposed to do, then somebody should be held accountable for that," said Tim Secord, legislative director with the United Transportation Union. "In this case, if what the TSB says holds true, then CN should be accountable."
The cause of the accident that sent the CN Rail train's locomotive and five cars plummeting into a gulley, killing conductor Ken Le Quesne and engineer Art McKay, both 51, "has not been conclusively determined," according to a letter released by the Transportation Safety Board last week.
The TSB released two recommendations in December that CN and Transport Canada ensure better inspection and enforcement practices on wooden train bridges. The did not say at the time what led to those recommendations.
But in the letter released last week, the TSB calls into question CN's inspection and repair procedures. It found in the course of its investigation "deficiencies with the potential to degrade rail safety."
"The board is concerned that CN's inspection and maintenance practices are not providing a primary line of defence for timber bridges on the CN network," the letter said.
CN continues to deny its practices were substandard.
It acknowledges its record keeping was not up to standards, said company spokesperson Jim Feeny. But it has since responded to the TSB letter with further information and evidence that Feeny says shows the company is not at fault.
"We responded that the inspections that needed to be done were in fact done, that any work needed to be done as a result of those inspections was in fact done, and that the work was completed prior to the accident."
The new evidence includes documentation and interviews with the people who actually did the required work on the bridge, said Feeny.
"Our position is that this accident - and it was a tragic accident - did not occur as a failure of the bridge."
Secord says the union will wait until the TSB releases the final report on the accident. But he remains skeptical, he said.
"CN is saying they did the inspections. But the TSB, being the supreme authority in this respect, says otherwise.
"Given the fact the TSB answers to Parliament and the public, and they have nothing to gain one way or the other, it seems maybe the other party isn't being forthright in their response."
The final report is expected some time in May. But TSB officials said last week that the scope of the investigation may push the release date back.
March 2, 2004
New Revelations about Raid at BC Legislature--Cloud of Scandal over Sale of BC Rail Continues to Grow
B.C. Federation of Labour Calls for Halt to Sale of BC Rail and asks for Gary Collins' Resignation
Vancouver-The Liberal government must immediately stop the sale of BC Rail after new revelations connect Liberal political aides, and their activities in Finance Minister Gary Collins' office to allegations of criminal breach of trust involving the sale of BC Rail, said B.C. Federation of Labour President Jim Sinclair.
"This confirms a direct link between the raid on the legislature and the sale of BC Rail. Until the public is fully satisfied there were no criminal activities involving BC Rail, the sale of BC Rail must be stopped," demanded Sinclair. Sinclair commented on the most recent revelation made public in connection with search warrants executed on the legislative offices of the
Liberal Finance and Transportation Ministers. "There's also a growing cloud over Finance Minister Gary Collins," said Sinclair, "a breach of trust may have occurred under his watch. To preserve the integrity of his office Collins must step aside until this matter is resolved."
Concerns regarding the privatization of BC Rail had been raised last year during the bidding process. "All along the government has conducted secret negotiations and closed door meetings to keep details away from the public.
It's a bad deal and the public knows it, and the Liberals have been trying to hide it," said Sinclair. "Now there are clouds of criminal activity and potential criminal breach of trust hang over this deal, communities along the BC Rail line deserve better."
"This scandal will sink what little confidence British Columbians have in Gordon Campbell and the BC Liberal government," said Sinclair. "Working families have paid the price for lost services and privatized assets; the only people who have gained under this government are Liberal friends and insiders. Breaking their campaign promise was bad enough, but to allow the
sale of BC Rail to proceed would certainly be a moral breach of trust with the voters of BC," said Sinclair.
The campaign to stop the sale of BC Rail is continuing and the Federation plans to make representations to the Canada Competition Bureau when the issue is discussed, added Sinclair. The Federation will also continue to support the efforts of the workers and the community in their attempts to hold this government accountable for the sale.
For more information contact: Jessie Uppal 604-430-1421 or 604-220-0739.
City of North Vancouver Meets with CN Rail Officials Regarding Recent Sale
of BC Rail. Council Vows to Oppose the SaleIn response to the recent sale of BC Rail to Canadian National Rail, and the resulting planned closure of BC Rail's head office in the City of North Vancouver , Mayor Barbara Sharp and City staff have met with the CN Rail officials to discuss the negative impact on the City of North Vancouver . At the meeting, the full impact of the sale was discussed, as well as CN
Rail's future plans, and the City's request for mitigation measures. CN Rail officials have confirmed the following facts regarding the impact on local operations: - there are 379 active BC Rail employees in North Vancouver - 172 of these employees will be retained - 74 will be offered early retirement - 99 positions will be eliminated through attrition and
severances - 24 will be relocated to CN in Edmonton - 10 will be relocated to CN in Prince George CN officials confirmed that passenger service will not be part of their operations. Portions of the existing BC Rail yard will not be acquired as part of their operating "franchise". CN has identified the track lines they require, and disposal of surplus assets will be at the
discretion of the Provincial Government. CN officials confirmed their commitment to retain operations on the existing line to the north. CN Rail will continue to operate from the head office at Chesterfield and Esplanade for a minimum of three years. They will reduce their presence at that location by subletting surplus space or returning it to the Province. CN Rail will provide details regarding the lease for this building including its obligations for disposal of excess space after that time. The CN yard
at Lynn Creek will continue to operate although some operations may be relocated to the western yard to improve efficiency.As a result they will look at the land holdings at Lynn Creek and will strive to create developable parcels. The City has requested that a commitment be made to initiate noise mitigation practices in this area due to the close proximity to the Cloverley neighbourhood. There are no other "off track" parcels or buildings in the City affected. Further to the meeting with CN Rail officials, City Council has adopted a resolution to reiterate its opposition to the sale of BC Rail and call for a full public disclosure of all documents held by the Province of British Columbia with regards to the sale of BC Rail to CN Rail. Council has also resolved to contact all North Shore MLA's urging them to vote against the sale. "The City plans to make its
voice heard on this matter," says Mayor Barbara Sharp. "The loss of 200 professional and technical jobs, as well as the City's grant in lieu risk of approximately $140,000, arriving on the heels of the Province's recent Ports tax cap which delivers a liability of $1.25 million, will impact the City's economy, therefore, we will aggressively oppose this sale. " The Council
motion will be circulated to all MLA's and all member municipalities. For further information please contact: Connie Rabold, Communications Manager City of North Vancouver Phone: 604-983-7383
Minister confirms paving of rail line www.pgfreepress.com
The provincial government does plan to pave the BC Rail right-of-way between North Vancouver and Whistler in order to ease traffic volumes during the 2010 Olympics, confirmed the new minister responsible for the Games.
"That doesn't mean they're going to be tearing up the tracks," said Economic Development Minister John Les.
He was responding to what he said were misinterpretations of an interview he did on a Prince George talk radio show Monday.
The plan is to pave sections of the right-of-way as a "temporary measure during the Olympics to accommodate what we anticipate will be significantly increased traffic for that period of time," said Les.
Only portions of the track running near the current Sea-to-Sky highway will be used, he said. It will be done in such a way that it will serve a dual purpose, much as streetcars and vehicles in San Francisco use the same road bed.
The project will probably double the width of sections of the winding highway that are currently only two lanes, said Les.
There will be no disruption of passenger or freight schedules on the BC Rail route from Prince George to North Vancouver, he said.
"What it will mean is that, when there's a train that needs to go through, traffic will be stopped, the train will go through, and then the traffic will resume."
Les could not say what would happen to the pavement after the Olympics, although he said it likely won't be torn up. Instead the province would probably "leave it there as an asset."
The spectre of the highway to the Whistler Olympics punching a hole through the BC Rail link between Northern B.C. and Vancouver was raised last June when confidential government briefing notes from December 2001 were leaked to the media.
Those notes examined the viability of abandoning the BC Rail line between Squamish and North Vancouver in order to widen the highway for the Olympics.
The transportation minister at the time, Judith Reid, said the government rejected the idea. She did not mention in interviews in June 2003 any plans such as those described by Les this week.
Meanwhile, Reid's replacement, Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon, suggested union calls for a halt to the sale of BC Rail to CN Rail this week were a day late and a dollar short.
The B.C. Federation of Labour said it learned BC Rail will post a record $95 million profit for 2003, 50 per cent more than the $61 million forecasted by the B.C. Liberals.
"Communities know they are losing a valuable service for their regions, and they know that there's no reason for BC Rail to be sold, it's making money," said BC Fed president Jim Sinclair.
Falcon, however, rejected any requests to reconsider the decision to enter into a "partnership" between BC Rail and CN Rail.
The province is getting a much better deal in the long run from the partnership than if the Crown corporation remained in public hands, he said.
The province will use half of the $1 billion it gets from CN to pay down BC Rail's outstanding debt.
The remaining $500 million will be used for various economic development initiatives.
A Stunning Victory for Workers!
Nova Scotia (Workers Compensation Board) v. Laseur
2003 SCC 54
Supreme Court of Canada
October 3, 2003
(90 pp.)The Supreme Court of Canada brought down a landmark decision for workers on October 3, 2003, one that has been 10 years in the works.
The entire Labour and injured worker community had been waiting with baited breath for this decision. Our wildest hopes for a strong statement from the court have been fulfilled.
Although this case was started in Nova Scotia, it is important to all of us as it deals with the principles of Workers Compensation. Right wing governments across the land have been dismantling Workers Compensation for over 10 years now, most recently right here in BC, where the Gordon Campbell Liberals, not to be outdone, have launched a virulent and devastating attack on injured workers.
In the midst of all the other attacks on the poor and the disabled, it’s been hard to garner much attention for those who are trapped in the Workers Compensation system. But inevitably, when the public hear what is happening with our most vulnerable, they are outraged.
Nova Scotia was one of the first jurisdictions to attack WCB. One of their measures to save employers money was to limit compensation for chronic pain to a measly four weeks. While other injured workers are entitled to compensation for the effects of their injuries and the limitations those injuries impose on their ability to work, those workers suffering from chronic pain were considered dispensable. Four weeks of benefits to help them return to work and they are “off the rolls”. They are not considered for permanent disability pensions. There is no other justification for this but simply dollars and cents. Since employers pay for the workers system (and get 100% protection from lawsuits as a result) any money which is saved by cutting off injured workers goes straight back into the employers’ pockets.
The government of Nova Scotia WCB justified these measures by saying that they wanted to stop fraud in the workers system for false chronic pain claims. The workers, Martin and Laseur, appealed their denial of benefits by arguing that they were being discriminated against under The Charter of Rights and Freedoms, s. 15 (1). That section of the Charter says:
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability
The Supreme Court of Canada answered two very important questions in this case:
· Can an administrative tribunal [like the WCB appeal tribunal here] apply the Charter of Rights and Freedoms; and
· would the section of the Nova Scotia Workers Compensation Act be illegal for discriminating against injured workers?
The Supreme Court of Canada found that, yes, indeed not only can an administrative tribunal apply The Charter of Rights and Freedoms, it must do so. No longer can these tribunals blindly apply unfair policies, saying their job is just to apply the “rules”. These tribunals must now apply the law of the land, and refuse to apply anything that violates that law.
This point repeats what the Supreme Court of Canada had stated only two weeks earlier in the Parry Sound case where the rights of tribunals to apply the Charter was clearly enunciated.
As for the NS Workers Compensation Act, the Supreme Court of Canada was clear. By making rules that said workers with chronic pain were treated differently from other injured workers, the Act discriminated against them. The government had argued that the proper “comparator group” was other workers suffering chronic pain. No, says the Court, the proper comparator group is other injured workers! Further, the system cannot use “saving money” as the sole basis for limiting workers’ rights.
One of the best quotes in the case is where Judge Gonthier says:
. . . I am of the view that this violation [of the rights of workers suffering chronic pain] cannot be justified under s. 1 of the Charter. On the one hand, budgetary considerations in and of themselves cannot justify violating a Charter right, although they may be relevant in determining the appropriate degree of deference to governmental choices based on a non-financial objective. On the other hand, developing a consistent legislative response to the special issues raised by chronic pain claims - such as determining whether the pain is actually caused by the work-related accident and assessing the relevant degree of impairment - in order to avoid fraudulent claims is a pressing and substantial objective. However, it is obvious that the blanket exclusion of chronic pain from the workers' compensation system does not minimally impair the rights of chronic pain sufferers. The challenged provisions make no attempt whatsoever to determine who is genuinely suffering and needs compensation and who may be abusing the system. They ignore the very real needs of the many workers who are in fact impaired by chronic pain and whose condition is not appropriately remedied by the four-week Functional Restoration Program.
The Court reflected on the origins of the Workers Compensation system: how it was intended to make a bargain which protected employers while guaranteeing workers certain protections. About that the Supreme Court of Canada said:
¶ 94 Another vital consideration in a case such as this one is the overall purpose of the legislative scheme at issue:. . . a classification that results in depriving a class from access to certain benefits is much more likely to be discriminatory when it is not supported by the larger objectives pursued by the challenged legislation. In the case at bar, the objectives of the workers' compensation scheme are clear . . . the scheme embodies a historical trade-off between employers and workers. While the former are protected by s. 28 of the Act against the possibility of being sued in tort for work-related injuries, the latter are guaranteed a reasonable amount of compensation for such injuries without being subject to the costs, delays and uncertainties of an action before the courts. In order to obtain compensation, employees must establish that their personal injury was caused by an accident arising "out of and in the course of employment"
¶ 95 The challenged provisions, however, while maintaining the bar to tort actions, exclude chronic pain from the purview of the general compensation scheme provided for by the Act. Thus, no earning replacement benefits, permanent impairment benefits, retirement annuities, vocational rehabilitation services or medical aid can be provided with respect to chronic pain. Employers are also exempt from the duties to re-employ them and accommodate their disability, which are normally imposed by the Act. Instead, workers injured on or after February 1, 1996, who suffer from chronic pain are entitled to a four-week Functional Restoration Program, after which no further benefits are available. In addition, if a chronic pain claim is not asserted within a year of the accident taking place, no benefit will be provided at all. Workers injured before March 23, 1990, are excluded from all benefits under the Act with respect to chronic pain. Finally, workers injured in the interim period are subject to transitional provisions whose constitutionality .
The relevance of this decision for workers in other jurisdictions is immense. Where legislation singles out certain injured workers – as for example in BC, where “mental stress” is not covered except in certain limited cases, we in the Labour movement will need to challenge the legislation and asks the courts to find that it is unconstitutional.
Here in BC, any mental distress caused by the actions of an employer is excluded from coverage under the Act. So, for example, where a worker in one of my cases, is wrongly terminated and commits suicide as a result, that worker’s dependents will not longer be able to claim Workers Compensation Act benefits – even where (as in this case) the worker was restored and made whole post-humously at arbitration.
These kinds of injustices, the singling out of the powerless, the poor and sick – which has become the hallmark of these right-wing governments across Canada have got to be challenged. That is why we have a Charter of Rights; when the governments desert their people, at least in some cases it seems like the courts may be willing to defend the rights of those who cannot fight for themselves.
Tuesday, July 08, 2003
Liberal plans to privatize B.C. Rail too secretive, says NDP leaderVICTORIA (CP) -- British Columbians are being kept in the dark about the government's plans to privatize Crown-owned B.C. Rail, says Joy MacPhail, Opposition New Democratic Party leader.
A government panel met Tuesday to decide which business was placed on a short list to bid for parts of the railway company, but the public was kept out of the process, MacPhail said.
The Liberal government introduced legislation last spring that allows a private company to take over much of B.C. Rail's operations, with the exception of the rail bed.
Canadian National is reportedly only one of several companies interested in B.C. Rail. Others include Canadian Pacific, Burlington Northern-Santa Fe and Union Pacific.
"I say to (Premier) Gordon Campbell that he should open up this secretive B.C. Rail bid review and allow the public to scrutinize his method by which he's going to make the decision to sell off B.C. Rail," MacPhail said.
But a Transportation Ministry spokesman, who didn't want his name published, said the bid process has always been open to the public.
The request for bid proposals, including the successful bid criteria, is posted on the government's Web site, he said.
Representatives of local communities and workers anticipated to be affected by railway privatization should at least be given insight into the bid process, MacPhail said.
The NDP has used a series of leaked documents to argue that the Liberals intend for CN to take over B.C. Rail, alleging that would result in a nearly 70 per cent cut in the 1,800-person workforce and abandonment of the line south of Squamish.
MacPhail also suggested earlier the tracks would be ripped up between Whistler and North Vancouver to improve highway access for the 2010 Olympics.
"There's scant detail about how they are going to determine who gets the bid," she said.
"I'm saying open this up, open the B.C. bid review to public scrutiny and allow the citizens and communities served by B.C. Rail to judge the worthiness of the successful bid as compared to the status quo."
North Vancouver-based B.C. Rail delivers freight to and from British Columbia's Interior and northern communities.
The railway's passenger service was halted late last year.
MacPhail said the company is projected to earn more than $140 million in the next two years.
BC Rail unions have no confidence in secret process announced today with four railway company bidders for BC Rail; say government should release all relevant information on likely massive job losses, service cuts and freight rate increases
Unions at BC Rail say they have absolutely no confidence in a secret process announced today that will see four railway company bidders make proposals that will result in massive job losses, service cuts and rate increases.
And the Council of Trade Unions on BC Rail says the provincial government should end the climate of fear facing workers and northern communities by releasing all the relevant information from the bidding companies, including plans to cut jobs by up to two-thirds of the 1,700 member workforce, increase rates and close parts of the rail service, as outlined in confidential BC Rail briefing papers.
“We’ve been accused of fearmongering by Transportation Minister Judith Reid but why shouldn’t BC Rail workers be afraid when credible documents prepared for her government by BC Rail management say half to two-thirds of all jobs will be eliminated,” says Council chair Bob Sharpe.
“Workers and northern communities and businesses that depend on BC Rail are being told – “trust us” – by the government when we know BC Rail management expects huge job losses, freight rate hikes and routes being abandoned. Who’s doing the fearmongering here and who is sticking up for BC Rail?” Sharpe asked.
The Council says there is only one way a successful bidder will make more money than the already profitable BC Rail – by cutting jobs and services and increasing rail rates.
“BC Rail workers say this company should remain in public hands – it’s making money and serving the province while providing decent jobs – does the government think there’s something wrong with that?” Sharpe said.
Sharpe noted that BC Rail’s $500 million debt is not a result of operating costs, which are the lowest in North America, but come from government decisions to build rail lines to service northeast coal in the 1980s and purchases like Vancouver Wharves.
CN Rail, CP Rail, US-based OmniTRAX in partnership with Burlington Northern Santa Fe and RailAmerica are the four accepted bidding companies, Reid announced today.
Internal BC Rail briefing documents obtained by the Vancouver Sun show that job losses in a private takeover of the crown corporation would result in estimated job losses of between 758 and 1,232 union and non-union positions, based on analysis of CN, CP and OmniTRAX operations. RailAmerica was not studied.
For more information contact: Bob Sharpe at cell 604-220-3488 or 604-434-8075 or Bill Tieleman, West Star Communications, at cell 604-209-8775 or 604-844-7827.
B.C. Rail proposal pleases mayor
Prince George Citizen
Wed 19 Feb 2003
Page: 3
Section: Second Front
Byline: Gordon Hoekstra
Source: The Citizen
It looks like the B.C. Liberal government listened to northern and Interior mayors in deciding to call for a private company to take over B.C. Rail but retain ownership of the rail bed and tracks, says Prince George Mayor Colin Kinsley.
Premier Gordon Campbell, in his half-hour television address to the province last week, said the government will be issuing a request for proposal for an investor to maintain the rail line's infrastructure and to make sure there's an operator who can deliver services to customers that are necessary "for our northern communities to thrive."
Campbell said he will also be establishing a mayor's council to provide input on the request for a proposal.
"I need to see what the final version is going to look like, but I think by going this route it's probably the way to make the best of a bad -- and inefficient -- system we have now," said Kinsley. "I'm supportive of doing it."
Kinsley had urged the Liberal government at a rail transportation conference hosted by the premier in Prince George last November to protect the integrity of regional service along the B.C. Rail corridor and to look to a public-private partnership where the partner would offer freight and passenger service, a position developed by Interior community leaders.
Passenger services were cut last fall, and freight services have been hit with the halt of intermodal services where truck trailers were hauled by rail on flat-bed cars.
This week, Kinsley said it's important that some parameters be set on a public-private partnership including that rail service be maintained along the length of the line from Fort Nelson to North Vancouver. He'd also like to see an option for separate partners to take over operation of freight and passenger service.
Perhaps a company like Omnitrax could take over freight services and Rocky Mountain Tours the passenger side, suggested Kinsley. Omnitrax, a Denver, Colo.-based rail company, has shown interest in B.C.Rail and attended the premier's transportation conference along with the CEOs of CN Rail, CP Rail and U.S.-giant Burlington Northern Santa Fe last
November. Rocky Mountain Tours successfully took over a portion of discontinued Via Rail service between Vancouver and Banff and Jasper.
The B.C. Rail ownership issue had heated up locally last fall.
Bob Martin, a former city councillor, had helped spark a public meeting to get answers on the future of the rail line which culminated with city council calling for a provincial inquiry into the Crown corporation. Martin said he's disappointed in the decision to seek a public-private partnership without proper public consultation. Martin believes the province will still have to invest and subsidize the railway even with a private partner. And he questions why it's necessary to make a profit from rail lines when it's not a requirement for roads.
"We are losing control of it, and I think it was killed," he said. "I don't think the premier had any intention of running it or seeing that it was run properly."
Campbell had said he would sell off B.C. Rail during the 1996 election, then changed his tune in 2001 promising not to sell off or privatize the line.
BC RAIL BUSINESS NEWS - UPDATE
Over the last days, people have been asking me whether the release of our 2003-2005 Service Plan means the Government has changed its mind about proceeding with a Request for Proposal process for running and investing in BC Rail. I'd like to clarify what has occurred over the past week.
BC Rail has been part of two separate strategic processes in the past
months;
* we have been part of the Province's Core Services Review
* we have been refocusing our strategies and efforts to restore the core business of the Railway to financial health.
The first process has been driven by our Shareholder, the Province of British Columbia. We have been in front of the Core Services Review Panel and I have tried to keep you informed as well as I can of decisions made by the Panel and by our Shareholder. As I have mentioned before, issues surrounding Rail's ownership are issues for our Shareholder.
As part of this first process, our Shareholder has informed us of its plan to issue a Request for Proposal (RFP) for the running of BC Rail. It has stated that it will create a Mayors' Council to help with the RFP. That process has begun but I do not have any more information for you at this time. I also have no idea what the outcome will be. Whatever outcome, it will be a Shareholder decision.
In the meantime, we have a Railway to run and customers to serve in the safest, most reliable and cost-effective manner. As in the past, we have developed a strategic plan to help us accomplish those goals. That plan is outlined in our Service Plan which was tabled in the Legislature and was made public earlier this week.
The plan deals with the strategies within our control. It points out how well we have done in turning the Railway into a self-funded Company. I know that the employees of this Company have risen to the challenge of turning BC Rail around. The 2002 results are evidence of that work. The plan also points out the challenges that face us as a Railway, regardless of any
Shareholder decision. We have customers who need our reliable and cost-effective service. And we have to keep our focus on doing that job in the safest manner.
I know these are difficult times for everyone and we truly don't know the outcome of the Shareholder's decision on the Railway. As I mentioned last week I am committed to keeping you informed on developments the best I can.
Bob Phillips
President and CEO
Right to sue proposed for injured P.E.I. workers
Charlottetown - Bob Crockett, a former deputy minister of labour, says regressive new provincial Workers Compensation Board rules should be tempered by a waiver allowing injured workers to sue employers.
Changes passed by P.E.I.'s Tory government last fall, including a three-day waiting period for benefits and an arbitrary process that allows authorities to "deem" injured workers suitable other jobs, whether the work is available or not, constitute a major betrayal of workers, said Crockett.
"I would suggest that to balance these losses, workers must be provided the legislative right ... to proceed via common law and sue the employer," he told the Charlottetown Guardian.
Crockett served as deputy minister under former Liberal premier Joe Ghiz. He is now a prominent union leader.
Gail Shea, the Tory minister responsible for WCB, rejected Crockett's recommendation, saying it changes the basic no-fault concept that lies behind all workers' compensation programs, she argued.
"I don't think you can have half a system," she told the newspaper. "In other provinces it is mandatory and that's the way it is here. And it would have to remain that way. I don't think it could survive if you only had a portion of your employees covered under workers comp."
